ฅ^•ﻌ•^ฅ hannah is a user on toot.berlin. You can follow them or interact with them if you have an account anywhere in the fediverse. If you don't, you can sign up here.

Wondering if any non native speaker (ie English) of a country (notably Germany, but also France, Norway, etc) has been able to go straight into a STEM Masters degree program after meeting the prereq as well as language? Wondering how much of a challenge it may be w/ the language.

I'm considering going through C1 hopefully this year, then try to enter like a German masters degree program (because, reasons) and in German too.

On the scale from "questioning my life choices" to "exploding head" please

@superruserr hmm, especially Master programs are very English heavy in STEM. Often rather mediocre English from the lecturers.
I can't comment properly on the language aspects of the actual question, unfortunately. From my past semi related experience it would *feel* possible at C1, lot depending on actual environment.

@tbr Yeah C1 is the required language level (as in, the certification itself) which is why I mentioned that level specifically.

Asking the question because mainly I think the German work / hiring system here is heavily pro- German education. And I think that even if one has some certs there is always that "and can you write documents in German" or "can you work in German" that is comes up as a barrier or a direct problem from recruiters/hiring folks.

@superruserr Yes and that's where I actually can say something about. Yes Germany is extremely German language centric. Also, especially outside of the larger companies and cities, racism is a massive issue.
I live in Finland. Here it's just racism, ingrained, often sub-conscious, but often overt. Language skill is just used as a thin veil for it. It took years for the official job search platform by the ministry started going after "must be native speaker" and other BS and the overt racism. 😑

ฅ^•ﻌ•^ฅ hannah @superruserr
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@tbr
Hiring and recruiting is a problem in tech and here I get the very problematic issue because in addition to the job requirements there is also the language, and then the citizenship aka "work permit" issue which puts my CV in the difficult-to-hire pile.

Which is really unproductive when there is apparently a "talent shortage" and I personally find that is true, but for other reasons.

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@superruserr Ahh, the good ole "Fachkräftemangel"…
That should mostly be translated as "The industry can't find people stupid enough to work on the bad conditions that they offer."
BTW: The "domestic university" thing worked extremely well for me, even though it was just an exchange year at tut.fi (now TREY).
Germany is quite similar in that respect so I do agree with your intentions. I'd say FI vs DE, DE is less on the systemic racism, but otherwise quite similar.

@tbr Doing some lead prep because I think I will have this problem in 2021/2022 (either end of contract or at the time of extending my current permit).

@superruserr OTOH there is an *actual* lack of skilled employees who speak fluent English.
I've been extremely successful in my niche by finding companies that had both a need on the technical side and on the language side (C2 in German, Polish, English).
It's harder to push with primarily English, as people tend to overestimate their command of English while underestimating the need for at the very least solid business level language skill.
With my kind of niche, lots of networking was the way.

@tbr I agree with all of that assessments, also based on my personal experience.